Kashrus Kurrents Fall 2010<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Q: I have been invited to eat out on Sukkos<\/em>.\u00a0 The sukkah<\/em> has canvas walls which shake in the wind.\u00a0 Is this a problem?<\/b> A: The Mishna<\/em>1<\/sup><\/a> states that a person can use the trunks of trees as a sukkah wall.\u00a0This Mishna<\/em> is referring to a scenario where the tree trunks are very close to one another, or the space between them has been filled with some other material, and the overhang of the tree branches will not invalidate the schach<\/em>.\u00a0The Gemara<\/em>2<\/sup><\/a> states that this is true only if the tree trunks do not sway.\u00a0 If the tree trunks are supple and sway in a normal wind, the sukkah wall is not valid.\u00a0The Shulchan<\/em> Aruch<\/em>3<\/sup><\/a> codifies this halacha, and adds that if the tree trunks are supple one can tie them to each other in such a manner that they will no longer sway in the wind.\u00a0 However, he states that it is not ideal to do so, as it is possible that the ties will loosen on Yom Tov<\/em>, rendering the sukkah invalid.<\/p>\n\n\n\n How rigid do the sukkah walls need to be?\u00a0 The Chazon Ish<\/em>4<\/sup><\/a> suggests that a wall formed from tree trunks is invalid only if the trunks will sway more than three tefachim<\/em> away from each other, or if the top of the wall will sway more than three tefachim<\/em> away from the schach<\/em>.\u00a0There is a general principle in halacha<\/em> called lavud<\/em>, which means that any gap of three tefachim<\/em> or less is not halachically<\/em> significant and can be considered as filled.\u00a0Therefore, if the top of the wall is within three tefachim<\/em> of the schach<\/em> we would consider those three tefachim<\/em> as filled by schach<\/em>, thereby reaching the top of the wall.\u00a0However, if the top of the wall sways more than three tefachim<\/em>, one could not consider the wall to be connected to the schach<\/em>.\u00a0According to the Chazon Ish<\/em>, three tefachim<\/em> is approximately 11\u00bd inches.5<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n There is another principle in Hilchos Succah<\/em> known as gud asik mechitzos<\/em>.6<\/sup><\/a> This means that if a wall of a sukkah is halachically<\/em> kosher, we would consider that wall to extend vertically for any distance.\u00a0If the wall of a succah<\/em> is ten tefachim<\/em> high, which is the minimum height requirement for a sukkah <\/em> wall,7<\/sup><\/a> we consider that wall to extend upward towards the sky.\u00a0Therefore, if a sukkah wall is ten tefachim<\/em> high, the vertical distance between the top of the wall and the schach<\/em> is immaterial, as long as the horizontal distance between the edge of the schach<\/em> and the top of the wall is three tefachim<\/em> or less.\u00a0It would therefore follow that, according to the Chazon Ish<\/em>, if at the height of ten tefachim<\/em> the tree trunks are rigid enough that they do not sway more than three tefachim<\/em>, the sukkah <\/em>wall is kosher.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Furthermore, it would seem that, according to the Chazon Ish<\/em>, if a canvas wall was tied at the top and bottom, so that the bottom was always vertically within three tefachim<\/em> of the ground and the top was always horizontally within three tefachim<\/em> of the schach<\/em>, the wall would be kosher even if the middle of the canvas moved in the wind.\u00a0However, the Igros Moshe<\/em>8<\/sup><\/a> states that that no part of the canvas should sway more than three tefachim<\/em> to each side in a regular wind, including the middle of the canvas.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The canvas sukkahs that are commonly used nowadays are tied at the top and bottom and do not sway more than three tefachim<\/em> in the wind; therefore, such a sukkah would be kosher.\u00a0However, as mentioned above, the Shulchan Aruch<\/em> states that it is not ideal to use such a sukkah due to the concern that the ties might become loose. Therefore, the Igros Moshe<\/em> says that such a sukkah should ideally be used only if the canvas would not sway more than three tefachim<\/em> without the ties.\u00a0It seems that the Igros Moshe <\/em>would accept lechatchila<\/em> a canvas wall, if the canvas has been sewn around a metal frame in such a manner that no part of the canvas sways more than three tefachim<\/em> from the frame in a normal wind.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The Moadim Uzmanim<\/em>9<\/sup><\/a> suggests that nowadays, where the canvas sukkahs are very well attached, the concern of the Shulchan Aruch <\/em>that the ties may become loose no longer applies; however, he concludes that it is advisable not to rely on this.\u00a0He also questions the ruling of the Chazon Ish<\/em> that the wall is kosher if it sways less than three tefachim<\/em> from the schach<\/em>.\u00a0Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt\u201dl10<\/sup><\/a><\/em> and Rav Ovadiah Yosef shlit\u201da11<\/sup><\/a><\/em> also pasken<\/em> that the wall should not sway at all.\u00a0The Mishneh Halachos<\/em>12<\/sup><\/a> points out that it is a commonly accepted custom to use canvas sukkahs<\/em>.\u00a0He suggests that the concern of the Shulchan Aruch<\/em> that the ties will loosen is limited to a scenario where the tree trunks are tied only to each other, with no further structure supporting the wall.\u00a0However, if a person constructs a square frame and securely ties the canvas to it, the resulting wall is kosher lechatchila<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The Mishneh Halachos<\/em> quotes the Gaon Mi’Tchebin<\/em> as advising a person with a canvas sukkah wall to do the following:\u00a0tie a taut string from one edge of the canvas to the other, parallel to the ground and within three tefachim<\/em> of the ground.\u00a0Tie a second taut string likewise, above and within three tefachim<\/em> of the first string.\u00a0Tie a third string likewise, above and within three tefachim<\/em> of the second string, and a fourth string above and within three tefachim<\/em> of the first string.\u00a0The strings should be distanced from each other so that the fourth string is more than ten tefachim<\/em> above the ground.\u00a0As the distance between each string is less than three tefachim<\/em>, the rule of lavud <\/em>allows us to consider the space as filled, thereby creating a wall with a height of ten tefachim<\/em>. As the strings are taut and do not move in the wind, the Shulchan Aruch\u2019s <\/em>concern that the ties may loosen does not apply, and the resulting wall is kosher lechatchila<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n According to Rabbi Heinemann shlit\u201da<\/em>, lechatchila <\/em>one should follow the psak<\/em> of the Igros Moshe<\/em> that no part of the canvas wall should sway more than three tefachim<\/em>.\u00a0Bedi’eved<\/em>, one may use a sukkah if the canvas wall is tied at the top and bottom, in accordance with the ruling of the Chazon Ish.<\/em>13<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n Halachic<\/strong><\/em> queries regarding all topics may be presented to The Institute of Halacha<\/em> at STAR-K by calling 410-484-4110.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n <\/a><\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n 1.\u05e1\u05d5\u05db\u05d4 \u05e4”\u05d1 \u05de\u05e9\u05e0\u05d4 \u05d3 <\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n 2.\u05e1\u05d5\u05db\u05d4 \u05d3\u05e3 \u05db\u05d3 \u05e2”\u05d1 <\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n 3.\u05e9\u05d5”\u05e2 \u05d0\u05d5”\u05d7 \u05e1\u05d9’ \u05ea\u05e8\u05dc \u05e1\u05e2\u05d9’ \u05d9 <\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n 4.\u05d7\u05d6\u05d5\u05df \u05d0\u05d9\u05e9 \u05d0\u05d5”\u05d7 \u05e1\u05d9’ \u05e2\u05d6 (\u05d9\u05d2) \u05e1”\u05e7 \u05d5 <\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n 5.\u05e2\u05d9’ \u05d1\u05e9\u05d9\u05e2\u05d5\u05e8\u05d9\u05df \u05e9\u05dc \u05ea\u05d5\u05e8\u05d4 \u05e2\u05de’ \u05e1\u05d3 \u05e9\u05d2’ \u05d8\u05e4\u05d7\u05d9\u05dd \u05d4\u05d5\u05d0 30 \u05e6”\u05de \u05d5\u05dc\u05db\u05d4”\u05e4 29 \u05e6”\u05de, \u05d3\u05d4\u05d9\u05d9\u05e0\u05d5 11.4-11.8 \u05d0\u05d9\u05e0\u05e6’\u05d9\u05dd <\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n 6.\u05e2\u05d9’ \u05de”\u05d1 \u05e1\u05d9’ \u05ea\u05e8\u05dc \u05e1”\u05e7 \u05de\u05d3 <\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n 7.\u05e9\u05d5”\u05e2 \u05e1\u05d9’ \u05ea\u05e8\u05dc \u05e1\u05e2\u05d9’ \u05d8 <\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n 8.\u05e9\u05d5”\u05ea \u05d0\u05d2\u05e8\u05d5\u05ea \u05de\u05e9\u05d4 \u05d0\u05d5”\u05d7 \u05d7”\u05d4 \u05e1\u05d9’ \u05de \u05d0\u05d5\u05ea \u05d1<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n 9.\u05de\u05d5\u05e2\u05d3\u05d9\u05dd \u05d5\u05d6\u05de\u05e0\u05d9\u05dd \u05d7”\u05d0 \u05e1\u05d9’ \u05e4\u05d3<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n 10.\u05d4\u05dc\u05d9\u05db\u05d5\u05ea \u05e9\u05dc\u05de\u05d4 \u05de\u05d5\u05e2\u05d3\u05d9\u05dd \u05d7”\u05d1 \u05e4”\u05d6 \u05d0\u05d5\u05ea \u05d0<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n 11.\u05e9\u05d5”\u05ea \u05d9\u05d7\u05d5\u05d4 \u05d3\u05e2\u05ea \u05d7”\u05d2 \u05e1\u05d9’ \u05de\u05d5 \u05d5\u05e9\u05d5”\u05ea \u05d9\u05d1\u05d9\u05e2 \u05d0\u05d5\u05de\u05e8 \u05d7”\u05d8 \u05d0\u05d5”\u05d7 \u05e1\u05d9’ \u05e0\u05d8 \u05d0\u05d5\u05ea \u05d0, \u05d5\u05d4\u05d1\u05d9\u05d0 \u05e9\u05dd \u05e9\u05db”\u05db \u05d4\u05d2\u05e8”\u05d9 \u05de\u05e7\u05e8\u05dc\u05d9\u05df \u05d1\u05e7\u05d4\u05dc\u05ea \u05d9\u05e2\u05e7\u05d1 \u05e1\u05d5\u05db\u05d4 \u05d3\u05e3 \u05db\u05d3 \u05e2”\u05d1 \u05d5\u05d1\u05e9\u05d5”\u05ea \u05de\u05e9\u05db\u05e0\u05d5\u05ea \u05d9\u05e2\u05e7\u05d1 \u05d0\u05d5”\u05d7 \u05e1\u05d9’ \u05e7\u05db\u05d2 <\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n 12.\u05e9\u05d5”\u05ea \u05de\u05e9\u05e0\u05d4 \u05d4\u05dc\u05db\u05d5\u05ea \u05d7”\u05d4 \u05e1\u05d9’ \u05e2\u05d6<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n 13.\u05e9\u05de\u05e2\u05ea\u05d9 \u05de\u05de\u05d5”\u05e8 \u05e8’ \u05d4\u05d9\u05d9\u05e0\u05e2\u05de\u05d0\u05df \u05e9\u05dc\u05d9\u05d8”\u05d0<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Kashrus Kurrents Fall 2010<\/p>\n Q: I have been invited to eat out on Sukkos.\u00a0 The sukkah has canvas walls which shake in the wind.\u00a0 Is this a problem?<\/b><\/p>\n A: The Mishna1<\/a> states that a person can use the trunks of trees as a sukkah wall.\u00a0This Mishna is referring to a scenario where the tree trunks are very close to one another, or the space between them has been filled with some other material, and the overhang of the tree branches will not invalidate the schach.\u00a0The Gemara2<\/a> states that this is true only if the tree trunks do not sway.\u00a0 If the tree trunks are supple and sway in a normal wind, the sukkah wall is not valid.\u00a0The Shulchan Aruch3<\/a> codifies this halacha, and adds that if the tree trunks are supple one can tie them to each other in such […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":20,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[30,103,131,27,318],"tags":[392,369,229,210],"class_list":["post-630","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-kashurs-kurrents-2010","category-fall-kashrus-kurrents-2010","category-insights-from-institute","category-kashrus-kurrents","category-kashrus-kurrents-in-app","tag-hilchos-sukkah","tag-insights-from-the-institute","tag-kashrus-kurrents","tag-sukkah"],"yoast_head":"\n